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Ending the vicious circle of hate and blood: an interview with Israeli Knesset member Dov Khenin
21st Century Socialism: What was the Israeli establishment aiming to achieve with the recent attack on Gaza and the continuing siege, and what have they achieved?
Khenin: Their logic is that the only way to solve problems is through force, and if force cannot solve something then you should use more force. This is the inner logic of the Israeli establishment attitude towards the Middle East conflict and to the Palestinians especially. Of course, this cannot really achieve anything, it is just a further escalation of the vicious circle of hate and blood which is the disaster of the Israelis and the Palestinians.
21st Century Socialism: Do you see aspects of the current situation, with the election of Obama in the United States and in the changing forces in Israel, Palestine and the Middle East, which could lead to a breakthrough towards peace?
Khenin: Well, concerning the politics of the Obama administration, it is to early to tell what they are willing to do here in the Middle East. I think it is high time for the United States to realise that the current policy as conducted by the Bush administration caused a lot of damage to American influence here in the Middle East. So I do believe that the Americans should change their attitude. Are they willing to do so? It is too early to really know.
Now, concerning Israel and Palestine, the situation is very dialectical. On the one hand, the rise of the extreme right wing in Israel, and the rise of Hamas as the administration in Gaza, are both developments in the direction of further escalation, and further deterioration of the situation in the Middle East. However, at the very same time, I do believe that most Israelis and most Palestinians are really tired of this very long conflict, and there are forces underneath in both peoples that would like a change of course, the real beginning of a political process here.
21st Century Socialism: Could you comment on the recent general election in Israel, including the performance of the left?
Khenin: The elections gave an electoral picture of the complete deadlock of the Labour and Kadima government, in both political and social-economic issues. So Israeli voters really punished both Kadima and Labour, and elected a right wing government, without any real enhusiasm. The moderate zionists including Meretz fared very badly.
We should make a very clear defining line between the old left, what we call the moderate zionist parties, who had a crushing defeat in this election, partly because of their indecision, vis-a-vis the Gaza war for example. They supported the war at the beginning, then they hesitated for a while. Hasdash really strengthened its votes both in the Jewish parts of Israel and in the Arabic population. Of course, Hadash is still a very small party. We have only four out of 120 MPs.
There is a need for a new left in Israeli politics; it is not only a need but it is also a possibility. We can see the signs of this possibility with the relative success of Hadash in both Jewish and Arabic parts of Israel. But of course the challenge for the recreation of the new Israeli left is a very important one and it is still ahead of us. The way to re-establish and rebuild a powerful new Israeli left is only beginning here.
21st Century Socialism: In November 2008 you stood for election as Mayoral candidate for Tel Aviv. Could you describe the election campaign and why you were so successful in attracting votes?
Khenin: Tel Aviv is a very important place in Israel; it is not only the economic and social centre of Israeli society, it is also the cultural centre of Israel society. Tel Aviv is also the richest of all the Israeli cities.
In the recent municipal election, the incumbent mayor Ron Huldai was supported not only by his own party, which is the Labour Party, but also by the Kadima Party, which was the party of government in Israel at the time of the municipal elections; he was supported also by the right wing Likud party, also by the religious parties, he was supported by all parties of the extreme right. And indirectly he was also supported by the Meretz Party, the zionist moderate party, with former member of the Knesset Yaël Dayan being a member of his electoral list in the Tel Aviv municipal elections. Yaël Dayan was a very important figure in the national leadership of Meretz. So on paper, Ron Huldai, the current mayor of Tel Aviv, was a very sure candidate for the elections, and he ran a campaign with a lot of money.
The interesting phenomonon was that we succeeded with the 'City for All' movement to achieve nearly 35% of the vote for the mayorship in Tel Aviv. 35% of the votes, well of course not enough to win the mayorship, but it was a very big success for a local movement which ran for the elections without money at all, with the support only of the enthusiasm of volunteers; we had approximately 2,500 volunteers working for us all around the city, which in Israeli terms is a very very big number. And the most interesting phenomenon was that we got the votes of about 75% of young people below 35.
The elections in Tel Aviv were not conducted only on municipal issues. From the very beginning of the election campaign, my opponents including the Labour Party MPs, attacked me personally as the candidate for the mayorship of Tel Aviv, very sharply, because of what they called my anti-zionist positions, my support for the young people refusing to serve in the Israeli army- which is a kind of very holy thing in Israeli society, my political attitude to the national anthem of Israel; you know, this anthem really does not allow Arabs to sing it, because it speaks about the Jewish spirit which we have in ourselves. So all these political, and you may say also ideological issues, were on the front pages of every Israeli newspaper all through the campaign period of the municipal elections.
And even so, I got 35% of the votes. And City for All, the movement we established in Tel Aviv, which is a kind of red-green alliance, is the strongest movement inside the Tel Aviv municipality following the elections. So this really shows the possibilities existing within Israeli society. You know, seeing Israeli society from abroad, you may see mostly problems, problems and dangers. But understanding Israeli society from within, you see not only problems, but also possibilities. You see the new generation of young Israelis, more open to new ideas, new thinking, more open to criticism, to social and environmental and political criticism, of Israeli society and politics. So the experience of City for All really shows up that the building of a new left in Israeli society is not only very much needed, but is also very very possible.
21st Century Socialism: It seems from here that from the increasing Israeli repression in the Occupied Territories, the war on Lebanon, the war on Gaza, that Zionism is slipping into a moral crisis, that its increasingly shrill justifications for Israel's actions are being rejected more and more by the international community. Israel is being compared to Apartheid South Africa- do you think that is a fair comparison?
Khenin: Well, I think that the current situation is leading to some very bad places. You know, historical comparisons are very limited; every situation is specific. And you cannot really compare very different places and histories. But without any doubt, the current politics of the Israeli establishment is leading Israel into terrible places. It will lead to the growing isolation of Israel in the world if it continues.
21st Century Socialism: There is a movement in many countries to push for a boycott of Israel, of academic institutions, of Israeli goods, trade and so on. What is the position of Hadash?
Khenin: We do support a boycott of things produced in the Israeli settlements, we are for a boycott of products from the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories. However, I do not believe that an indiscriminate boycott of Israel and Israelis will help to improve the situation in any way. You know, the right wing establishment in Israel use these kind of boycotts to prove once more to the Israelis that all the world is against us, that people do not make any clear marking line between moderates and extremists, that all the world is anti-semitic and so on. So an undiscrimated boycott I don't think is very helpful.
21st Century Socialism: What is your view on the internal division of the Palestinians, between Fatah, Hamas and so forth?
Khenin: I think the internal division inside the Palestinian people is a disaster, and another disaster is the rise of Hamas and fundamentalistic extremism inside the Palestinian people. I think the Israeli establishment is a lot to blame for this development, because the peace forces inside the Palestinian people cannot really show their people any achievement, anything being achieved by the way of negotiations and of settlement. The situation in the Occupied Territories is only deteriorating. So the right wing Palestinians, the Palestinians who oppose the two-state solution, can say to their people that the way of negotiations does not lead anyone to any progress.
21st Century Socialism: What does Israel need to do to create a just and lasting settlement?
Khenin: Well, first of all Israel should open real and serious dialogue with the Palestinians, with Syria and with the Arab League, based on the Arab Peace Initiative. I think that concerning the Palestinian Occupied Territories, Israel should immediately cease building and expanding the settlements. You know, with all these recent deals, building of the settlements continued at very great speed; it was under Labour defence ministers and under Kadima administrations, that Israel continued building these settlements at record speed. So Israel should immediately cease building the settlements; Israel should re-open all the kinds of blockages in the Palestinian territories; Israel should establish a ceasefire with Gaza, including the opening of the blockade on Gaza. Israel should agree on the exhange of prisoners and detainees, including bringing back Gilad Shalit to his home and his family.
These are the first and very important steps that Israel should take right now.
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Dov Khenin speaking at a demonstration against the war on Gaza |
In part two of this interview, which will be published later this week, Dov Khenin discusses the issues to be overcome in a negotiated Middle East settlement, international solidarity with the Palestinians, and the need for socialism in the 21st Century.